Update - July 25th: Alongside our announcement that Deadman: Apocalypse begins on Friday, August 25th, at 5pm BST, we've made a handful of additions and/or clarifications to the table at the bottom of this blog. We've indicated these additions with an asterisk (*) where possible, so you can spot anything that might have changed!
Last month we shared a first look at Deadman: Apocalypse with all of you! If you've not caught the blog already, give it a read by clicking here before continuing, since this follow-up blog aims to share with you some of the feedback points we've seen and spoken about based on everything you've shared so far.
On the whole, we're pleased with the reception Deadman: Apocalypse has had so far and it feels like many of you are excited to jump in to another Deadman. That being said, we know there's a good bit of feedback from competitive DMM players for changes they'd like to see, or things they're not big fans of. We've tried to address as many of these as possible here, and make our reasoning clear as to why we've made various decisions.
Deadman: Apocalypse is extremely experimental for us and we'd like for you to come into it with an open mind, to see whether this season could be our bloodiest yet.
There are a lot of topics to cover, so we'll try to shoot for the more significant ones first before moving on to some miscellaneous points and clarifications.
This one's the longest individual section because there's a lot to cover, so strap in or keep scrolling if you're not too invested in this side of things!
In our first blog, we spoke about plans to handle prizing very differently this time around. Rather than a very top-heavy, esports-style distribution with a competitive 1v1 finale and the top finishers taking the lion's share, we elected for a wider distribution, giving smaller amounts to a much larger number of players.
Some players expressed frustrations regarding our plans for prizing this time around, especially those with a history of competing in Deadman seasons. While many of you might just be excited to play for the first time and not see any issues, we'd still like to share some of the feedback received so that those of you who aren't as excited about this season's prizepool know that we've at least seen, understood and spoken about your concerns because we absolutely appreciate where you're coming from.
- For many PvPers, Deadman is the only 'official' competitive PvP outlet in Old School.
- In the past, Deadman seasons ran every 3 months and were much more frequent than they are now.
- It's been a long wait since Deadman: Reborn, due to the finale re-run and a busier content schedule for us through most of 2022 and 2023 compared to other years.
- Some veterans feel like there's less of a focus on competitive PvP this time around, due to the introduction of a Points system.
- Some veterans are anxious about getting too experimental, because it's unclear when they'll get either another Deadman or some other competitive, Jagex-sanctioned PvP event to show off their skills and earn some prize money.
- Some players who are likely to rack up large numbers of points feel that only having a random chance to earn some prize money at the end of it is discouraging, since players who perform worse than them might win in their stead.
- Some players shared concerns that the finale happening in multiple worlds simultaneously will spread players too thin and reduce the spectacle, and not having an ultimate 'winner' reduces prestige.
Our main reasoning for adjusting the way we distribute prize money is that it gives us a chance to still reward some players for participating and putting the time in to progress, but aims to disincentivise people from playing dirty or engaging in behaviours that have plagued previous Deadman seasons.
For Deadman: Reborn, we ran a 1v1 finale for the top 2,048 players on Friday, September 17th 2021. This finale was targeted by network attacks, resulting in significant lag and a poor experience for players as a result, so we went away and explored options for a re-run that we were confident we'd be able to run without any of the same issues. We delivered a re-run in June 2022, which was also targeted by network attacks.
What we're getting at is that despite us investing significant time and money into delivering a truly competitive experience, where the best player wins and things run without a hitch - we've not been able to do so. Rather than re-tread old ground and expect things to go differently, we're trying to mitigate risks by reducing the incentives for bad-faith actors, and a more widely distributed prizepool is one way for us to do this when it comes to the 'last player standing' portion of rewards.
This year's final hour(s) are planned to run on multiple worlds at the same time, not limited to combat bracket. We completely understand concerns shared about the potential for activity to be lower during the finale, especially bearing previous DMMs in mind. At the same time, with no 1v1s and the finale being open to anybody who wants to turn up, we believe we'll see more players engaged all the way through rather than stopping when it's clear they won't make the top 2,000 or have a good shot at going far in a 1v1 stage. We appreciate that there is absolutely a risk of worlds feeling sparse during the finale, but it's one that we're willing to take so that we can experiment with a fresh approach and take learnings (both positive and negative) away to use when planning future Deadman events. Throughout the season itself, we'll be taking a very proactive approach to the number of worlds available and are happy to remove worlds as necessary to prevent players from spreading too thinly.
The Points system is a first for Deadman, aiming to give players a progression track for engaging with more content in the game. While PvP will break out at breaches and other effective point-earning activities, it's difficult to make PvP the primary means of earning points due to the potential for boosting. Instead, we've aimed to make participating in breaches the most appealing avenue for earning points, so that players looking to make the most gains are incentivised to head out into these locations where PvP is guaranteed to occur. Similarly, with people looking to earn points in all manner of ways, we expect activity to spread a little further afield and increase your odds of finding players to fight all over the world, or perhaps wrestling for control over a particularly popular source of points.
Similarly, we saw a number of players express some frustration about the 'raffle' style system for rewards given based on Points earned. This primarily boils down to us wanting to experiment and try something different, and feels like something worth exploring as a way to keep more people interested in Deadman for longer knowing that they have a chance at winning some prize money, resulting in worlds staying busier for longer and ultimately resulting in more PvP later into the season.
Despite all this, we have made a few changes to the prizing to award larger amounts to fewer people, and here's what we're thinking:
- $1,000 to the last player left alive on each of the 5 final worlds.
- We've removed the '$500 for most damage dealt to bosses during the finale' and rolled it into the survival bonus instead. We'll also be heavily toning down the number of monsters present during the finale, so that it feels more like the multi-combat mayhem from older Deadman finales, with a significantly reduced risk of you having to tank a team and a Dagannoth King simultaneously.
- $1,000 to 20 players based on point tiers, and we'll be adjusting the number of prizes going out to each tier to try and make things a little more top heavy.
- 3 players at or above Adamant tier.
- 5 players at or above Rune tier.
- 7 players at Dragon tier.
- 5 players out of the top 25.
As for 'official' competitive PvP outlets in Old School, you're right that Deadman has been carrying that torch in recent years, and we understand why some of you aren't fans of the approach we're taking with Deadman: Apocalypse. Generally, it's uncommon for developers to run competitive events with the frequency that we have in the past, especially for titles that aren't inherently competitive in nature, with many preferring to work with third-parties to run events or to forego them entirely.
While we're not ruling out the idea of partnering with others to run more events in the future, we also want to reiterate our commitment to community events and community organisers. Old School is community-driven first and foremost, and our playerbase is full of creative people who could absolutely flourish as organisers given the right support. If you get in touch with us with a pitch for an event and explain to us what it is, who it's for, and the kind of help that you're after - we'll always give you the time of day. If it's a solid pitch, we're open to supporting with prizepool, social coverage, advising, putting you in touch with creatives who might be of use (graphic designers, for example), and potentially other things like private worlds or broadcast support. So, if you'd like to try your hand at running the fabled 2016 JCup, get in touch and let's make it happen!
On the topic of having an overall 'winner', we agree that the approach we're taking this time around does diminish that sense of prestige for one player who wins out above all others. While we're not sure there's an easy way for us to achieve this for Deadman: Apocalypse, it's absolutely something we'll look to consider in future Deadmans, in terms of ways to bring back that more competitive side of things - perhaps next season we'll pick a top 32 to fly out to the UK and compete in a LAN event like the good old days?
These were a feature first introduced to Deadman: Reborn that we'd like to bring back for Deadman: Apocalypse instead of the XP caps we've experimented with in years past.
While we saw a lot of positivity from players who were excited about feeling as though they wouldn't have to play more hours than they could to keep up and from people looking to play limited builds like Pures and Zerks, we saw some concerns about spreading players out too much and resulting in sparsely populated worlds. We agree that this is a risk, but want to give this system another try for some of the other benefits it provides in that it doesn't punish people who weren't able to start playing day 1, and gives players who are willing to put in the hours the opportunity to pump to their heart's content.
That being said, we'd like to make a couple of tweaks and clarifications to how we want these worlds to work for Deadman: Apocalypse, with the aim of making the top bracket enticing enough that players will actively want to progress through the brackets rather than hide away in the lower brackets. Here's a list of points that we hope clarify our thinking so far and explain how we're looking to entice players to actively progress through brackets.
- With no 3-life system this time around, we expect fewer players to burn out while progressing through the lower brackets.
- The points system provides a progression route that we believe will encourage more players to get involved and keep worlds populated widely as people look to engage in a variety of activities in-game.
- We'd initially considered bracketing combat within worlds, but feel being able to easily tell who you can attack at a glance is important for clarity's sake.
- We saw requests for fewer brackets if we were dead-set on doing brackets, and had initially considered doing so. However, players only receive 1 hour of immunity when moving up to a new bracket, meaning they won't be able to progress much before being a target for players many combat levels above them.
- We plan on being much more proactive this time around when it comes to removing worlds if activity drops to further condense people and make sure that none of the worlds feel barren.
- Deadman: Reborn's 4x Drop multiplier will only be present on the 111-126 bracket. The drop rate multiplier will increase over time as follows:
- Level 3 to Level 50 - 1x Drop rate multiplier
- Level 51 to Level 70 - 1.75x Drop rate multiplier
- Level 71 to 90 - 2.5x Drop rate multiplier
- Level 91 to 110 - 3.25x Drop rate multiplier
- Level 111-126 - 4x Drop rate multiplier
- Breaches will spawn more monsters in the higher brackets. Since breaches are the best source of points, anybody serious about earning points should be progressing through brackets to reap the most rewards possible from breaches.
- Additionally, breaches will be the only source of Blighted items and Ancient warrior equipment, so those of you looking to power up and gain an edge should be progressing through brackets and taking on breaches (and other players at the breaches) at the highest combat possible.
- Higher tier sigils will be much more likely to drop in higher brackets, so players looking to power up or sell them on should be progressing as fast as they can to gain a competitive edge.
- There's potential for us to restrict some content in lower brackets if this is something you're interested in. We're open to this since players at lower brackets wouldn't realistically have expected to compete in previous DMMs, so restricting some content to double down on encouraging people to progress feels palateable. Also, since the finale worlds aren't combat bracketed, any lower level players competing will still be contending with level 126s during the end of the season.
That covers most of the discussions we've had around Combat bracket worlds so far, let us know if you think there's something we've not properly considered, and share your thoughts with us on whether or not you feel suitably encouraged to progress to the higher brackets! At the same time, if you're wanting a more chill experience and not looking to compete particularly, then there's no pressure on you to level up - take things at your own pace, find fights, and have fun!
Quests are a hot topic for any seasonal game mode. On the one hand, players looking for some seasonal fun aren't excited about the prospect of questing all over again (even though quests are great!), and on the other hand, strategising a route to progress quickly through quests and fight over areas of the map is a staple of Deadman.
When we sat down to discuss automatic unlocks in more detail, we looked at a handful of options we'd seen arise from players:
- Option 1: proceed with the system we proposed, where the highest combat brackets would effectively auto-complete every quest.
- Option 2: proceed with the system we proposed, but remove 'pinnacle' quests from the auto-complete lists, meaning quests like Dragon Slayer 2, Song of the Elves, or perhaps even Lunar Diplomacy would need to be completed manually.
- Option 3: strip the automatic unlocks back to a very basic unlock list, similar to what we used for 2020's DMM.
- Option 4: give players a choice of one questline to autocomplete, with a basic unlock list, requiring most quests to be manually completed.
- Option 5: implement a points-based unlock system similar to the one from Leagues 3: Shattered Relics.
After talking through all of these, we've tried to find a middle-ground that still asks players to think carefully about progressing through quests while also not expecting people to chase full completion in a seasonal gamemode. Here's where we landed and what we'd like to work on for Deadman: Apocalypse:
- Give players a basic set of quests automatically completed with each bracket, similar to our initial proposal, but trim this down so that the quests being completed are more in line with the auto-unlocks from 2020's DMM.
- Identify a few 'pinnacle' quests from each combat bracket. For example, for the 111 - 126 bracket these might be Monkey Madness 2, Sins of the Father, and Dragon Slayer 2.
- Upon entering a new combat bracket, allow players to choose one of these pinnacle quests to complete, forcing them to manually complete the others if they wish to reap their respective rewards.
We still have some work to do on trimming down the automatic unlocks and figuring out which choices for players to make, but feel like this system serves as a solid middle-ground for players not looking to repeat every quest they've already completed while still allowing those who plan the best routes to excel and outperform others. We know this is a shift from what we proposed initially, so we're curious to hear what you think about it!
*We're still nailing down exactly which quests we'd like to give players the choices between and at which brackets, and will be releasing a more final list on these some time before the release, so that you have time to plan any strategies before the season starts!
Our initial positioning for Blighted weapons was a means for people willing to risk heading out to breaches (where PvP is an absolute guarantee, making them the riskiest places to be in Deadman: Apocalypse) to be in with a shot at securing some powerful gear to have fun with during the season, and rewarding players for risking in the open-world rather than being tucked away in instances or less-visited locations.
We still believe that they do achieve this, but also understand concerns that they invalidate some other pieces of content. In the initial post, we highlighted the Twisted bow, Tumeken's shadow, Scythe of Vitur, Voidwaker, Dragon claws and Armadyl godsword as potential options, and some players felt that being able to obtain a direct equivalent elsewhere diminishes the value in grinding for some of these - especially for players who aren't likely to continue in permanent Deadman following the end-of-season merge.
To try and strike the balance between our initial aims and not devaluing other grinds or upsetting balance too much, we'll be giving Blighted weapons a reduced damage output compared to their 'proper' counterparts. This might mean that a Blighted Twisted bow only does 80 or 90% of the damage that a regular Twisted bow would do, meaning it's still a worthwhile unlock earlier on (or less daunting to risk at breaches), but that it's outcompeted by the regular version. We'll likely change the word 'Blighted' to something else in order to make things clearer that these are weaker alternatives and not a proper replacement, meaning it's still absolutely worth your time to get stuck in to content like the reworked Wilderness bosses and assemble a real Voidwaker.
Even though the strength of these items has been knocked down a peg, breaches remain their only source, as well as being the only source of Ancient warrior weapons, the best way to earn points and the best way to earn Tier 5 emblems - so we expect to see absolutely loads of you turning up to breaches (both in single- and multi-way combat) to score some loot regardless of how powerful these weapons might be!
That covers most of the larger topics of conversation, but we still have a whole host of smaller points and clarifications to make, which means it's time for a big ol' table!
| Your Feedback/Question | Our Response/Clarification |
| "What is the stance on swapping this Deadman?" | In case you're new around these parts, 'swapping' looks like this:
As for our stance: we won't be banning anybody from swapping. The economic side of Deadman and earning main-game GP by playing Deadman and swapping is one of the reasons that a lot of people choose to engage. On top of this, properly policing swapping is extremely resource intensive and reduces our ability to police cheaters in the main game. With that being said, swapping is performed entirely via trust trades with other players, meaning swapping GP is performed entirely at your own risk. While we've seen calls to try and implement some kind of 'official' means to swap GP, the development of features like this would be incredibly complicated and isn't something we'd be able to commit to at this time. |
| "Will there be any maingame cosmetics up for grabs in exchange for points or point tiers?" | With us aiming to start Deadman: Apocalypse before many of you return to uni or have family members getting back to school, we're not able to spin up a full suite of cosmetics and a point system that transfers to the maingame in time for launch. Deadman: Apocalypse is very much an experiment for us, and if the point system feels like a positive addition in retrospect, then we will make certain to consider main-game cosmetic incentives for any future iterations of Deadman so that you can flex your progress and let everybody know that you're an absolute machine. |
| "Will those of us who work be put at a disadvantage by a mid-week release?" | We're not able to say for certain, but the team are currently aiming to set themselves up for a Friday release, so that as few of you as possible are caught up in work or school during the early days of the season! |
| "Will people be able to die repeatedly and just alch the starter pack items for easy GP?" | The items provided by Starter packs will be untradeable, and won't be the exact items specified in the newspost. The items listed were to provide a sense of the rough power of the starter packs, rather than being the exact contents. |
| "The starter packs feel a little underwhelming, why these items and not sets like black d'hide/mystics etc.?" | We've aimed to stray away from handing out full PK sets because we feel these will negatively impact some of the economical aspects, such as the race to be among the first on the worlds able to craft Black dragonhide armour. These sets are intended for players to get back into the swing of killing things for a basic rebuild if they'd like, for those situations where you find yourself respawning without having built up a couple of backups for some basic gear as opposed to replacing big chunks of the early progression for players during the season. |
| "Will sigils still provide their own XP boosts?" | We've removed all XP boosting effects from sigils, there won't be any modifiers to XP beyond the combat bracket that you're in. This was done with the merge to world 345 in mind and not wanting people to be able to knock out 200m XP in skills before merging and instantly dominating HiScores. *In addition, skilling relics that sped up the rate of some actions (such as Smithing, Fletching, etc.) won't function in the same way this time around. |
| *"Will players be able to use higher XP rates to boost higher HiScores ranks after the merge to world 345?" | *In short, no. We're aiming to cap XP within the season so that reaching 99 in a skill is as far as players are able to go, players aiming for post-99 XP in a skill will have to wait until after the merge if they're looking to chase HiScores ranks. |
| *"Would the team be open to adjusting banking mechanics (the delay, and the ability to unnote food) to bring back bank fights?" | *We're open to it and are exploring whether or not we'd be able to deliver a change like this in time for release. Bank fights are an iconic part of older Deadman events and can add a new dynamic for the influx of players who might be newer to Deadman. |
| *"Won't players just camp the same boss over and over for as many points as possible?" | *We're exploring the ability to introduce a soft cap on points, so that after some number of kills (perhaps in the region of 50 or 100), you'll receive fewer points for a given boss. The aim is to encourage you to get involved with a wide breadth of content and change your plans regularly. |
| "Will the Emblem trader still be present?" | *The Emblem trader will be making a return for Deadman: Apocalypse, but we'll be moving him to the Grand Exchange. An older iteration of this blog implied that Edgeville would be becoming a safe zone, this is not the case. In past Deadman seasons it's been pretty popular for players to camp the Emblem trader since it's a near guarantee that somebody will pop up and try to trade in an emblem or two. We want to see whether moving him into the safezone lets people make use of their emblems more easily (especially when most of the points from emblems will come from Tier 5s, primarily obtained from breaches) and spread players around more of the game for fights. |
| "Have you made any changes to the Emblem Trader's shop?" | *Note: an earlier version of this blog showed the number of each item you'd be able to purchase after trading in a Tier 5 emblem. We've removed these quantities since they were confusing for players. These numbers aren't set in stone and are subject to change! We're looking to make a few tweaks and additions to the Emblem Trader's shop. Tier 1 emblems are still bought for 100,000 points, and Tier 5 emblems are bought for 1,500,000 points. Click the dropdown for a look at what we're thinking for the Emblem Trader's shop this time around! Note that the 'Points' in this section refer to the points in the Emblem Trader's shop, and not the points earned throughout other Deadman: Apocalypse gameplay. CLICK HERE TO EXPANDPotions
Sacks
Miscellaneous
Armour/Weapons
Void's never really been accessible in Deadman before, we're interested to see whether introducing it in this way is of interest to you, adding an extra value to securing those emblems. Let us know what you think, nothing on this list is set in stone and we're open to making changes depending on feedback! |
| "Will you be adding any new safezones or making any changes to single/multi-combat areas like in some past DMMs?" | The one significant change we're looking to make on this front is to make the Warriors Guild a safe area. The defender grind is iconic for many players, and we feel the Warriors Guild becomes too 'easy' of a hotspot as a result. We'd really love to see combat break out all over Gielinor and have players hunt each other in different locations, with breaches still serving as a very reliable hotspot every day. |
| "Have you considered announcing only the multi-combat breaches and letting players stumble across the singles ones?" | We've seen a few people suggest this to give players a chance to farm the breaches before PKers flood the area, and we get where you're coming from. However, the primary function of breaches is to condense and encourage activity so that PvP breaks out, them being flooded with PKers is something we actively want to see, since Deadman is a PvP gamemode above all else. Additionally, since the breaches are picked from a list of fixed locations, it wouldn't take long for people to just set up scouts at these locations and know where they are instantly anyway, which is likely not something more casual players would be able to access. With all that in mind, we'll be sticking with announcing the location of both the single-way and multi-way breaches at the same time. |
| "Sigils were extremely overpowered last time, in particular Rampage and Aggression (which were the only two that really held a high value). Aren't things going to be even more broken with the ability to take 3 Combat sigils?" | It's true that Rampage and Aggression stood out head and shoulder above the rest during Deadman: Reborn, and that adding more offensive sigils into the mix for players willing to take 3 Combat sigils is scary. We've aimed to bring more combat sigils in line with Rampage and Aggression so that there aren't clear favourites that everybody wants to take every time. Additionally, without a 1v1 finale, players have more freedom to get used to using a whole bunch of relics that suit their style - whether that's outlast, small teams, or full-on clan vs. clan wars. As part of this, defensive sigils have also been improved considerably - they'll be a much more appealing choice this time around, and players will have to weigh up going all-in on offense only to be met by a brick wall. We're hoping that sigils give players the ability to customise their gameplay and play their way, while also giving you the room to make decisions more in-depth than in Deadman: Reborn. |
| "Can you make it so that active GE offers are considered as part of bank keys when you kill a player?" | So, for those who don't already know, dying in Deadman deletes all of your active Grand Exchange offers, to prevent people from using their GE offer slots as a safe storage for items by just popping in a sell offer for max GP on items that will never sell. We'll be taking a look at whether or not it's possible for us to take the value of these offers into account when determining your most valuable banked item stacks, but this could prove more complex than we're able to do at this time. If we're not able to figure it out before Deadman: Apocalypse, then we'll be leaving Grand Exchange death behaviour as-is. |
| "How will the PJ Timer work in Deadman: Apocalypse?" | We'll illustrate this with an example using players A, B and C.
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| "Will you be adding other skilling supplies to the global drop table?" | We'll be adding a couple of alchables to the global drop table, but we're not looking to add any more supplies. With sigils that boost gathering skills, and supply drops coming in from breaches, we don't want players to circumvent obtaining useful sigils or attending breaches by just farming for global drops. |
| "Can you remove the 'Peek' option from bosses that have their own lairs?" | We're looking to do this, and will remove the 'Peek' option if we're able to! |
| "Will there be private instances for the GWD bosses?" | No, we're aiming to remove private instances for the God Wars Dungeon bosses (General Graardor, Kree'arra, Commander Zilyana and K'ril Tsutsaroth) in Deadman: Apocalypse |
| "Won't the monsters from breaches just kill all of the players during the final hour? Surely Jad will just off-screen people?" | We'll be significantly tuning down the number of monsters coming through for the finale, or potentially removing them entirely for the very final portion of Deadman: Apocalypse. It's also worth noting that the monsters being added from breaches won't be particularly complex or able to one-shot players. We mentioned Jad in the initial post for dramatic effect, but he won't be making an appearance in Deadman: Apocalypse (he's also quite tricky to make behave outside of the Fight Caves). Most of the monsters present at breaches will be pretty simple, with larger HP pools, so don't expect to see Nex lawnmowering an entire team at a breach. Think more along the lines of individual Dagannoth kings, God Wars Generals, some juiced up Slayer superiors - that sort of thing! |
That's everything we've got to respond to at this point!
If you feel you've given feedback that's been misrepresented or you've got an important question that's not been answered - get in touch with us in all of the usual places (but watch out for rate limits if you're on Twitter!) and let us know, so that we can update this blog and respond to as much as possible.
Thanks to all of you who've given us feedback so far, and for all of you who've read through this follow-up blog. We hope to see you in Deadman: Apocalypse later this summer!
You can also discuss this update on our official forums, on the 2007Scape subreddit, the Steam forums, or the community-led OSRS Discord in the #gameupdate channel. For more info on the above content, check out the official Old School Wiki.
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